The amazing Barry Nugent is the sort of hero we both need and deserve. He’s a beacon of witty, inclusive enthusiasm, an actual podcasting legend and one of my favourite authors. I had the pleasure of chatting to him about his new book, Mystery of the Midnight Cartographers.
Catch us up, where did we leave the kids last time?
Well, it’s tough to talk too much without giving out spoilers, but this book picks up around three months after the events of Trail of the Cursed Cobras. In terms of the state of things, in the words of their reluctant mentor Lucas Carnaby, these kids are ‘the gold standard’ for heroes. Even at school, the rumours about them have become the stuff of school legend now. Life is good for our infamous five, but there are cracks beneath the surface that this second story brings into the light.
I love that the Midnight Cartographers are a presence in the world before the kids encounter them first hand. How much of the background there did you figure out that we didn’t see?
I’ve always loved having a world where things are always happening, both on and off the page. I like the idea of readers wondering what else is happening outside of what the main characters are doing, even after the story ends. As a result, all my books within the Unseen Shadows universe. I think because the Midnight Cartographers play such a big part in this story most of their background is there on the page. However, I did do some extra planning around them. Some of my biggest inspirations to write were Indiana Jones and Doc Savage, so when the idea came to me to create my very own pulp heroes I jumped at the chance. I still have the idea, at the back of my mind, to one day write an anthology of stories. I daresay a Midnight Cartographers adventure might show up in there.
The school vs school fight early on is such a great beat. I keep thinking about how it does so much for the book and in particular how it sets up the kids’ unique place at the school. That kind of ‘You may be weird but you’re OUR weird’ beat is one I always love. Could you talk us through that scene a bit, and how you balanced it? There’s a lot of action, some real anger and a lot of humour in there and it all really lands.
Thanks! Given what unfolds later in the book, it was important to set up just how much these schools don’t like each other. I love writing action and big set pieces, so I let the dogs of imagination loose on this one! I thought having a big old dust-up between schools was a visceral way of showing the animosity between our kids from St Icilda’s and their rivals from Prossfield Academy. I also knew that I didn’t want it to be too intense, so I peppered it with humour and kept my sentences short to keep the action moving.
In the lead up and the fight itself I wanted to show how Ada, Bobby, DJ, Nikki and especially Tony are a solid unit now. Whether it’s against a rival school or a host of monsters, they will stand together. It also gave me the opportunity to showcase the unspoken bond that can develop within a class. The kids mess about, argue, even fight with each other in class but as soon as anyone else tries to harm that bond they’re not having it. They act as one. That bond between classmates against outside forces was something I remember from my school days that I wanted to bring to the page.
We see so much of the family life of our heroes this time round and it’s all sowell done. Without spoilers, there’s a scene with Bobby and his dad that’s one of my favourite beats I’ve ever read of yours. Could you talk a little about how you balanced the plot with the emotional lives of the kids this time round?
Ah thanks mate, I appreciate that. I think writing a second book can be tough, as it’s tempting to just do a ‘rinse and repeat’ and give readers the same story as the first book, just bigger. At the other end of the spectrum is the danger of going so far out of your comfort zone that the characters you created become unrecognisable. Approaching this story I knew I wanted to challenge each of the kids on an emotional level (yes, even DJ). In the first book, they saved the day in spectacular fashion but here they’re facing a very different threat, while dealing with the emotional scars of their first adventure. I didn’t want it to feel like another day at the office but rather another day at the office but the office is on fire at the same time.
Yes, there’s a grand adventure and villains to battle but at the spine of this book is a story about grief, the perils of arrogance, fear, belonging and friendship. It was a tough trick to keep those emotional plates spinning without them crashing down and overwhelming the story. It was something that I went back and forth on over more than a few drafts but I’ll let the readers judge if I kept everything spinning.
Nikki’s such a great character and she gets some really heavy lifting to do this time around. I loved how you explored her anxiety, and how she’s helped to acknowledge that and in doing so begin to control it. It felt so real and I just wanted to thank you for that. Amazing work, dude.
Thanks, I’m very proud of Nikki’s arc in this book. I was lucky in that regard in that my wife. Sue is a therapist so I was able to talk through some of my ideas and she was able to guide me in whether I was on the right track or not.
Anxiety is something I’ve always had to deal with (though not to the extent of Nikki’s)
but it got so much worse after my mum died. It was soon after that event that I had my very first panic attack. I honestly thought I was having a heart attack. It was a terrifying experience, largely because I did not know what happening. I was lucky in that I had Sue to help me through it and explain what was going on. I drew on that, along with other experiences to help me get across just how deliberating anxiety can be. How something small can suddenly become a thousand times magnified in your mind. The bravery isn’t the overcoming of anxiety, it’s the acknowledging it in the first place and realising it doesn’t have to be this secret shame, this heavy load you have to carry alone. There are people, some professional, some not that are there to help you find ways to deal with that load.
There’s some big hints about the ESD this time round. Do you have more in store
there?
Well these two books form a duology so the infamous five of St Icilda’s will be taking a well earned rest for a bit. However, those who have read my other books will know that ESD is a big presence that will keep popping up in the future, like a bad penny.
DJ: A) Awesome, B)Badass, C)Cool as all hell or D)Definitely all of the above?
I’ll let DJ answer this one.
“Are you dense, you doughnut? Course I’m picking D. For I am the great DJinn!”
Thanks so much for chatting to me, buddy. And you, DJ:)